#7 out of 94 Airlines A minimum of 10 flight-reports within the past two years is required to appear in the rankings.
138 reviews
This series covers a recent trip to Shanghai. This trip was booked without too much notice so there were more limitations on route planning than would have been preferred, but it did present us a good opportunity. With the late booking, J fares were astronomical outside of PR. Looking at W and Y fares, the non-stop options were MU and UA, but both wanted ~$2500 for Y operating B77Ws in 3-4-3 configurations (UA W was ~$4500, which was more than PR J…). One-stop options via NRT/HND/ICN/TPE were better priced, but there are few options that have daytime departures ex-SFO and also don't require an overnight layover. The cheapest option (by far) was surprisingly KE, which also had some of the best flight times. When flying Y, we normally prioritize non-stop to reduce the pain, but considering the gulf in quality between UA Y and KE Y, the decision was a no brainer. Our simple SFO-ICN-PVG-ICN-SFO routing will give us the chance to sample 4 different KE products. I've flown KE on their B777-200ER, A330-300, and B747-400s previously so this will help bulk out my KE fleet experience. Our routing for this trip:
At the time of this trip, there was 5x daily service SFO-ICN (UA 2x, KE 2x, and OZ 1x), most leave in the 23:00-24:00 time block with only KE and UA operating mid-day departures.
This report will cover the flight from San Francisco to Seoul-Incheon and a look at the VS Clubhouse at SFO.
We booked our ride to the airport and were deposited at 10:20 in front of SFO’s international terminal.
We walked inside and quickly found the KE counters in aisle 9.
Using the SkyPriority lane, we were quickly helped by a 3rd party agent at the F counter. He handed us our boarding passes, tagged our luggage, and handed us vouchers for the lounge. Since our son doesn’t have SkyTeam status, he gave us an extra lounge card for him so that we wouldn’t have to deal with processing him as a guest in the lounge. He also let us know that boarding would be delayed to 12:10 due to the late arriving aircraft from ICN at that gate announcements would be made in the lounge by KE staff.
With documents in hand, we were quickly on our way over to the security for Concourse A. There was no one in the TSA PreCheck line, but we had to step aside to let the JL pilots go first. Entering Concourse A after clearing security.
The FIDS exiting security showing our flight as on time despite what the ground staff told us.
Most of the lounges in Concourse A are located above the terminal and are accessed by an elevator. The new AF lounge re-opened last summer, but there is mixed information online about access requirements since I think they try to limit it to AF/KL passengers. Since KE already handed us the slips for the VS lounge, we went up there instead, which is likely not the best decision since it is also a Priority Pass lounge in the mornings ahead of the VS departures.
Entering the Clubhouse, we had a line of Priority Pass people entering. There was a KE agent there and they took our slips and let us in around them.
The lounge was not very big and with the demand from KE and all of the Priority Pass people it was very crowded. All of the seating areas along the windows and the far corner were occupied. We went off to the other end and just took a seat at the dining tables since these were the only free seats. We had to push 2 tables together to make seating for 3.
The lounge does overlook the tarmac, but with large semi-transparent panels (likely needed for the afternoon sunset), it is almost impossible to see anything. A peak outside shows a JL B787 and a CX A350.
Just then, our plane poked its nose around the corner arriving from ICN at 11:10, almost 30 minutes late.
Since it is Priority Pass hours, the bar is restricted to ~10 items and all food has to be requested by QR code.
The offering is quite poor with no actual hot breakfast items.
Some croissants for my son and I had the noodles, which were served with a side of kimchi. My wife had the chicken Caesar salad and said it was okay commenting on the relatively large quantity of chicken.
We thought about just leaving for the AF lounge, but since we really only had ~20 minutes until we planned to walk down to the gate, we just stuck it out. I would not recommend going here if you have SkyTeam status unless it is during the non-Priority Pass window when they offer full menus. The CI lounge is also Priority Pass, but should have better food options despite being very old.
There are only 3 bathrooms in the whole lounge and they are combined shower rooms. They are okay with REN products, but the layout is really weird with the toilet right in front of the frosted blue glass door.
With boarding targeted for 12:10, we left the lounge with a number of other KE passenger around 11:55 to go to the gate. The busy concourse A, not as nice as Concourse G used by *A since it lacks the outdoor terrace.
Along the way, we see the BR B77W in *A livery getting ready to go back to TPE. One of the few *A departures from Concourse A.
Reaching our gate, we can see our plane below still getting refueled and catered, which is also the exact time they make an announcement that boarding will be delayed until 12:30. Our plane today will be HL8009, an 8-year old B77W delivered to KE back in December 2015. KE has 2 different B77W configurations, but really only relevant to J/F cabins since both have identical Y227 seating spread across 2 cabins.
A look down shows that the pilots and crew are also still waiting to board the plane so we will have some time to kill.
We wandered around for a while before making our way down to the gate at 12:25 and tried to ask where the family boarding would take place since they already pre-staged all the wheelchair passengers. At check-in, the agent told us to use family boarding instead of SkyPriority, but the gate agent said they were going to do both in parallel so moved us to the front of that line. Boarding started promptly at 12:30 with both family boarding and SkyPriority in parallel and we were quickly down the dark drab jet bridge. Outside of L2, there was a cart with earphones for Y passengers.
The 3 crew members in the galley quickly converged on us scanning our BPs before directing us down the aisle.
A look at the Prestige Class cabin in its 2-2-2 configuration. A much better arrangement of Apex seats than those in the JL B77Ws with 2-3-2 configuration. The drab teals of KE really make the cabin look old, hopefully the new J product that will start getting rolled out will provide some aesthetic refreshment to their image similar to what was done on the Prestige Sleepers in the A321s.
Reaching the first of the two Y cabins in their 3-3-3 configurations with luxurious 34” seat pitch and 18” seat width by current standards.
Our row. We booked A/C/D seats in the Preferred seating section (rows 28-31). They normally charge ~$70 for these seats, but are complimentary for ST Elite Plus members. There is no difference to the regular seats other than the proximity to the front of the cabin for quicker deplaning. I wouldn’t recommend paying out of pocket for these. Since there is no galley or lavatory at 3L/3R, there is minimal foot traffic in this part of the plane other than the crew. In our row, B and E were both empty so my wife and I both got empty seats next to us to spread out.
Pre-placed on every seat was a pillow, blanket, 500mL water bottle, and amenity kit.
The pillow is good quality for Y, but comes in a scratchy disposable cover. Since there isn’t double seat padding, these come in handy for lower back support. The blanket was thin but soft.
The amenity kit pouch contains slippers (not great quality, but better than nothing for Y) and a dental hygiene kit.
The seat back pocket is large and divided in two parts so that you can keep your items separated from the literature.
The abundance of seat back contents: safety card, barf bag, SkyShop order form, Morning Calm, SkyShop catalog, and Wi-Fi instructions.
Duty free is still king on Korean carriers as exemplified by the >250 page SkyShop catalog. Wonder how much 300 copies of these add to the cabin weight…
The Wi-Fi instructions, which I’ll discuss later.
Seat pitch is industry leading at 34” up there with JL and is very comfortable. It’s sad that this is now what is considered extra-legroom on US carriers.
The IFE is available gate to gate and this B77W had the newest interface of Beyond on fairly large 11” screens (still smaller than the new A321s). The only negative is that they are high gloss so not easy to see when the windows are open. KE has the best IFE of the major north Asian carriers (NH/JL/KE/OZ/CA/MU). The new interface is much easier to navigate and the content is quite good, you can find the content here (https://www.koreanair.com/in-flight/entertainment?hl=en) so I won’t bore you. The interface is very responsive to touch so the remote is not needed.
The seat backs have USB-A ports and there are universal AC adaptors between the seats.
Bi-fold tray table with flip down cup holder.
The KE branded antimacassar with fully adjustable headrest.
KE keeps their cabins at 23-25C, which a lot of people complain about since they don’t have individual air vents. I felt fine in long pants and a light jacket.
Immediately after sitting down, a FA approached with a kid’s pack containing headphones and toys.
The KE branded children’s headphones by LilGadgets. This is the first time I have ever seen this offered by a carrier in any class of service so kudos to KE.
The toy set, which our son quickly assembled and played with throughout the flight.
Our view outside is of an AF B77W that just arrived from CDG.
We closed boarding doors at 13:00 and initiated our pushback. As the whine of the GE90s filled the cabin during start-up, we had the new KE safety video. The K-Pop video has now been replaced by AI flight attendants.
As we started out our taxi, the purser came to my wife and I thanking both of us for our ST Elite Plus status and said the flight time would be 12h40m and asked us to let her know if we need anything during the flight gesturing to our son. KE is always very good at acknowledging status.
The second JL B787 is now here, both of the mid-day departures to HND/NRT are now downgraded to B787s during low season.
As we continue our taxi around Concourse A, we get a glimpse of a KL B787 and BA A380.
We had the long taxi over to runway 28R. Runway 28L is still closed for repairs so all of the heavies have to share 28R with arrivals. A glimpse of the CX A350 leaving for HKG.
AM B737 arriving from a long trip up from MEX.
UA B77W departing ahead of us.
The KE B77Ws have 2 cameras (forward, down) so we can see easily track our taxi and alignment onto runway 28R.
We finally take off at 13:31 about 50 minutes late, which starts to put some pressure on our 90 minute layover in ICN. On wing seats have little view on take-off, but I do get some glimpses of SFO before we cross above the clouds.
There are 5 lavatories for Y on the B77Ws, 2 behind the first Y cabin and 3 behind the second Y cabin. The ones in the rear were slightly longer. They were clean throughout the flight, I saw a FA clean one before I went in and another time she went in after me so they are definitely monitoring them. They are a standard affair, but do come with a face lotion and I like the blossom pattern they chose for their lavatories and bulkheads.
A picture of the cabin before meal service started.
At 13:50, meal service started with the delivery of special meals by hand first. For CHML, you are able to select options for both meals with 3 choices available. Since this was being catered from abroad, the options are pizza, spaghetti, and a hot dog for CHML.
Our son’s CHML as delivered. They don’t do a drink order so you have to wait for the carts to get drinks with a special meal.
The meal unpacked. He had the pizza for the first meal which was molten. It looked better visually once it cooled down and the cheese solidified, but it also meant that the bottom pieces were stuck to the top pieces making it difficult to eat. Also on the tray are potato chips, cheese and crackers, orange slices, vanilla yogurt, packaged roll and butter, and a cheese cake for dessert. Kids get bamboo cutlery and a refreshing towel. It’s a large amount of food for a kid, so I took the non-perishable items off for him to eat later as snacks.
At 14:00, the carts made their way to the front of the cabin and started the meal service for everyone else.
KE publishes their menus in all classes online (https://www.koreanair.com/us/en/in-flight/onboard-service/dining/first) and a couple of days before departure they even provide pictures of the dishes so if you do your homework, there should be no surprises in-flight when given the basic “bibimbap, beef, or chicken” as the options. The menus are also available in the KE app if you want to check it in-flight.
I went for the bibimbap and the FA asked me if I have eaten it before. I declined instructions. My meal tray as delivered along with a glass of red wine. It contains the cold ingredients and steamed rice, soy bean paste soup, fermented pickles as appetizer, orange slices, and a packaged chocolate chip muffin for dessert.
Metal cutlery and a refreshing towel are provided.
The ingredients before mixing, meat portion is very tiny, one of the few distinguishers between Y and J versions. Also, the quantity is less than on ex-ICN flights.
Sesame oil and gochujang paste to season.
The mixed product.
A satisfying meal, but I don’t care for the packaged dessert, so I pocket it for my son to eat later.
After the FAs complete the cart service they come back down the aisle with the wine bottles to top off glasses.
This is almost immediately followed by FAs coming down offering coffee from pitchers.
Then finally offering tea. For tea, they pour hot water in your cup and let you pick out your own tea bags (the options were black, green, or brown rice green tea), which make it feel more premium than just pouring pre-brewed tea from pitchers.
After the trays were cleared, the cabin lights were dimmed at ~15:15 for the rest of the flight despite this being a daytime flight.
There is Wi-Fi on KE's B77Ws, which was easily accessed by the portal. Their rates are quite reasonable with messaging, 2h, and full flight packages. There is also a basic flight information feature on the Wi-Fi portal.
The FAs are definitely hard working on KE, there must have been a FA down the aisle every 30-45 minutes either offering drinks or collecting trash. The flip down cup holders come in handy mid-flight.
At 18:40, I decided to test out the mid-flight snack options. I pressed the call button and a FA was at my side in less than 15 seconds. I asked for the ramen and they returned a couple of minutes later with a tray of the ramen accompanied by a glass of water and chopsticks. They leave the spice packet on the side so you can choose how spicy you want it.
At 19:30, about halfway through the flight, the mood lighting turned up and the crew started a mid-flight service. All special meals get served a banana first, so my son received one for his CHML. They then returned with a cart to hand out packaged sandwiches to everyone else. My son saw my sandwich and wanted one too, so I asked the crew for a second one. They said they would bring any leftovers to us once they finished the cabin to ensure everyone was served. They came back a couple minutes later and offered us more. After the sandwich distribution, they then proceeded down the aisle with trays of drinks with choice of water, pineapple juice, and orange juice.
The sandwich was ciabatta bread and had cheese, ham, lettuce, and mayonnaise. For Y sandwich offerings, it was probably better than most I've eaten since it wasn't dry and hard.
After my son's nap, I took him to the rear galley where some snacks were setup. The FA sitting back there came to say hi to him and offered him the snack basket. He obligingly took one of everything. His bounty on this flight. My wife saw some Orion crackers in the mid-galley as well, so they had a decent mix of Korean and American snacks.
Cabin lights in the Y cabin started to turn on at 23:30 (SFO time) about ~2.5h prior to arrival at ICN as we approached the eastern coast of Honshu.
The CHML was delivered first, the tray as received. They must use the small trays for weight/space reasons, but they are overflowing with food. Again, no drinks are offered with the special meals, I had to wait for the main service to get him a cup of milk.
The meal revealed, we picked the hot dog option for this meal. The tray contains the same orange slices as the first meal, jello, orange juice, the same vanilla yogurt as the first meal, hot dog condiments, bamboo cutlery, and refreshing towel. The hot dog was served over a bed of potato wedges.
At 23:50, the carts came down the aisles (back to front). The options as shown in the menu were beef or shrimp.
I opted for the beef and rice and my wife opted for the shrimp and pasta. My tray as delivered. Drinks are also offered and I just took a cup of water.
The meal revealed. The tray contains a smoked salmon starter over pickled vegetables, which was excellent. The dessert is the same cheesecake that the special meals got for the first service. There was a packaged roll and butter as well. Metal cutlery and refreshing towel.
The beef and fried rice was better than my wife’s shrimp and pasta dish. The sauce was good, but the meat could be tenderer. The portion size was at least very good for protein, the meat occupied 2/3 of the tray with the vegetables placed on top.
Immediately after, coffee and tea service was done.
After the dinner service, the lights were dimmed again until the cabin was prepared for landing into Incheon. There was not much to see on approach on a cloudy day in the region.
Breaking the cloud layer, we get a hazy quasi-golden hour approach into ICN.
We touched down on runway 33R with a kiss landing along T2 at 18:04, 45 minutes behind schedule.
Exiting the runway, we can see a KE Cargo B777 landing behind us.
As always, a sea of planes at remote stands. Even with T2's construction, gates are still at a premium in ICN.
KL Asia B777.
Since we were almost an hour late, our gate was already occupied so we had to hold short near the remote stands until a new gate was assigned. Our twin passing us by.
We finally got assigned a new gate and approached the terminal.
Our boarding passes showed our flight to PVG departing from Gate 245 and a B739 was on stand, so we can check out our next plane already.
We pull into our gate at 18:19 between a KE B789 and the KE B737 we will take in the next flight.
The blood begins to warm as we wait for a slow L2 to engage with our next flight scheduled to board at 18:25 for an 18:55 departure. Being in the 3rd row of Y, we are quickly out to start our dash to the transfer security. Our race is over quickly as a gate agent is already there holding a sign with our names to escort us, the connection will be safe.
One last look at HL8009 as we wait with the gate agent that will escort us to our next flight.
Our next plane at the adjacent gate is so close, but will our bags make the ~100m dash across the tarmac. Only time will tell…
With that, I will conclude this report as we start our very brief transit in ICN.
Korean Air, KE24
Equipment: Boeing B777-300ER [HL8009, delivered December 2015]
Departure: 12:40 (ATD: 13:31)
Arrival: 17:20 (ATA: 18:04)
Flight time: 12:33
Korean Air offers a pretty flawless Y product in their B77Ws. The hard and soft product were both excellent on this sector and made a 12.5h flight with a young child painless. I would definitely not hesitate to fly them again on their B77Ws if needed and they represent excellent value proposition for Y.
Cabin: The KE B77Ws are easily one of the best hard products on the Y market with 3-3-3 configuration, 34" seat pitch, 18" seat width, good recline, large pillow, and amenity kit. B77Ws may have drier air and are noisier, but these can be excused with the excellent hard product.
Cabin Crew: Excellent crew on this flight that was attentive and engaging throughout the long flight, nothing to even critique.
Entertainment: The IFE screens are large (11"), crisp, and responsive. USB-A ports and and AC power outlets available. WiFi was reasonably price. The only criticism was the content of the IFE, still not in the league of the best in the industry, but they had more than enough content for the flights I took and offer better content than Chinese/Japanese carriers.
Meal/catering: Both meals not only had quantity, but also quality. The mid-flight snack options and ramen were sufficient and drinks regularly offered mid-flight. Only criticisms are that there are a decent amount of packaged items (dessert, rolls, and CHML items) and the fruit cups/yogurts are repeated items on both meal trays (likely a SFO catering issue).
7 Comments
Luxurious indeed! Korean and JAL really have some of the best long-haul Y products out there---they're basically the only ones left with seat pitch higher than 32"...hell even 32" is becoming rare and now considered above average with most carriers doing 31" pitch in Y now...even as low as 30"....which is madness for long-haul configurations...sub-32" pitch was until very recently reserved for narrowbodies...sigh.
Love that! Western carriers don't even do that in F/J!
It's sad that I know that's TAYO the bus haha...god I hate that Theme song...it's as bad a baby shark for getting stuck in your head and driving you nuts ?
The catering all looks so good and the kid meal looks perfect (yes a lot of food, but food kids actually want to eat). Not as cute (or should I say Kawaii!) as the CHMLs we got on JAL, but definitely perfectly adapted for kids.
Overall about as good as Economy can get these days!
Thanks for sharing!
NH still has 34" on their B77Ws, but they succumbed to the 3-4-3 to make room for the larger footprint of The Room. The fact that JL is taking delivery of its A35Ks with 34" pitch in Y is a clear sign that they have no intention of budging from the top of the list with best Y product.
With kids, flying Asian carriers is a no brainer, they are much more hospitable than Western carriers when dealing with families. ICN is also filled to the brim with Pororo and Tayo play areas so it makes the transits easier as well.
Even ex-ICN, there was no character, which is fine. We'll let NH/JL be the kawaii carriers.
Seems like a great job by Korean Air once again with terrific legroom and decent to good catering.
Thanks for reporting!
It's been ages since I last flew KE and I don't really have particular memories (beyond their bibimbap).
By your account, it seems that they are doing a good job.
For me too, a decent pitch (over 32'') is the main driving factor when choosing long-haul tickets in Y.
All those attentions to young flyers are really heart-warming. (And a very clever marketing tool=cultivate your future clients).
Korean food being as varied and tasty as it is, I would like to see one of its flag careers putting a bit more efforts in presenting other aspects of their cuisine in their menus...(beyond their good bibimbap)....
Thanks again and safe flights.
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